Windows Live Streaming, not really streaming!
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Comments
Published
Tuesday, September 11, 2007
at
9:58 AM
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You have to hand it to Microsoft, they tell a really good story. Today I decided to understand the Windows Live Streaming Service and see how Microsoft was actually "Streaming" under the hood. The fact is they aren't streaming at all, rather this is just progressive download with a bandwidth limit. Using Charles Proxy, the Windows Live Streaming service is using HTTP 1.0 with a bandwidth ceiling of 700kbs. Basically they have a server farm throttle limited to 700kbs serving WMV files over HTTP 1.0. This is just progressive download with a bandwidth bitrate limitation and truthfully any HTTP web server was capable of this 8 years ago.
Take a look for yourself:
1. Download Charles Proxy here (great tool btw!)
2. Load up this webpage: Tim Sneath Streaming Example or Fox SliverLight "Streaming" Example
3. Take a look at the proxy:
Tim Sneath "Streaming" Example
Fox "Streaming" Example
Personally I think it is wrong to call this streaming. Even worse is that at IBC Microsoft is touting their low cost for "Streaming" solutions. Given this is their definition of "Streaming", then streaming content for Flash Player has always been free by comparison.
NEW
I uploaded an FLV and SWF files as .WMV to the Microsoft Streaming Service to see if the service was looking at the contents within the WMV files. Typically with real streaming solutions the server understands the contents of the file it is asked to stream. In this case the service, using MS "Streaming" definition, streamed an SWF and FLV within the service.
This examples was posted at 12:47 PST on Tuesday Sept. 11. Lets see how long it takes for MS to take it down. The example "streams" a SWF and FLV as WMV files using MS Streaming Service.
View Source to see the URLS
DIRECT URL TO SWF (as WMV)
DIRECT URL TO FLV (as WMV)
DIRECT URL TO EXAMPLE
Maybe it should be renamed to:
"Microsoft Windows Live Progressive Download Video Service with Bandwidth Limitations(TM)" although I am sure this new name would not be as popular.
Maybe I should quit and start a "Streaming Service" with Apache and EC2 .... hmmmmmm.
Cheers,
Ted :)
To be fair, I don't see 'streaming' mentioned on the Fox Demo. But you are right, there is no demo of silverlight's streaming video anywhere to be found.
That probably explains why when I went to the WWE.com site, it took as long as 45 seconds for some of the videos to start playing.
Ted, are you sure it isn't just those sites now streaming?
I have to say...I'll be disappointed if there isn't a true streaming option. Having a free 4GB progressive download is still a good option but if it isn't streaming I'd agree, call it something else.
"While the product is in pre-release, storage and delivery is free up to 4 GB, with outbound streaming up to 700 Kbps. As we move out of Beta, developers/designers will have continued use of the service with up to 1 million minutes of free video streaming at 700 Kpbs per site per month. Unlimited streaming will also be available for free with advertising, or with payment of a nominal fee for the service for use without advertising."
Source: http://silverlight.live.com/
I posted an update to this article that adds an SWF and FLV into the MS Streaming Service. It "streams" the SWF and FLV just like it does WMV files.
http://www.onflex.org/ted/2007/09/windows-live-streaming-not-really.php
Cheers,
Ted :)
Ted, while I totally agree with your correct definition of "streaming"--it's not as though this is the only acceptable definition. The term streaming gets thrown around all the time--and applied to progressive downloads. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_video
So, whatever, show me the conclusive and accepted definition for streaming.
phillip,
I would say this is not a matter of semantics as much as it is of concept, specially when fees, hosting costs, and the whole marketing-around-the-idea is involved...
In some countries we'd take "Microsoft's Windows Live Streaming definition" as "cheating", you know :)
I'll admit it's pretty lame they used the word streaming--maybe you could get your money back? Wait, it's free.
It does sound like, if nothing else, the name of the service is misleading. Here's a comment on their forums from the program director:
"The Silverlight Streaming service (http://silverlight.live.com) is about on-demand progressive streaming, not live streaming."
Hi Ted, thanks for drawing attention to Microsoft Silverlight Streaming by Windows Live. I’d like to explain more about what we offer.
Microsoft tells a good story because it is a good story. The Silverlight Streaming service is a companion service for Silverlight that makes it easier for developers and designers to deliver and scale rich media as part of their Silverlight applications experience on the Web. It’s a free global service that offers more than twice the bandwidth of any other free video service on the web, without imposing any Microsoft branding requirements on third party sites.
The fact that Silverlight Streaming is all about on-demand progressive streaming, and not live streaming, is called out explicitly multiple times in the Hosting and Streaming forum (http://silverlight.net/forums/15.aspx). It’s worth noting that the current release is an alpha; as we continue to test the service and evolve the underlying infrastructure, Silverlight Streaming will be more than ever about delivering the scale to let the Web designers and developers build the end user experience.
From a technology standpoint, it’s not strictly accurate that the bandwidth usage is capped at 700 Kbps. It’s true that the Terms Of Use note a bandwidth limit, but the Content Delivery Network used in the Silverlight Streaming service will just push a video file down the pipe at whatever bit rate it was originally encoded, full throttle, and it will be up to the last mile connection to digest whatever is coming down. As a case in point, the Halo 3 HD video trailers (http://halo3.msn.com/videoshd.aspx) are encoded at 2 Mbps and the progressive streaming is pretty smooth in most parts of the world through our global network of servers.
More information about Silverlight Streaming can be found at http://silverlight.live.com; we’d encourage you and your customers to take a further look.
Rémy Pairault
Senior Program Manager
Microsoft Corp.
Hi Ted,
I was at Matt Voerman's session at Web On The Piste where he showed a slide saying that Silverlight 1.0 and Silverlight 1.1 did not support streaming.
I corrected him and told him that this simply isn't true.
Silverlight 1.0 automatically detects the content type and supports http(s):// (progressive download) and mms://, rtsp:// and rtspt:// protocols.
As you point out http://silverlight.live.com currently uses progressive download for media when you store your video as part of the service.
You can still leverage the service to hold a XAML wrapper to a player that consumes a stream rather than progressive download. I have done this here http://gobeyond.net.nz/glennria.html it wraps this stream mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/nz/webpiste/glennRIA.wmv
More about how to do it here http://blogs.msdn.com/brada/archive/2007/06/07/silverlight-asp-net-expression-and-windows-server-2008.aspx
Also you might like to take http://www.livestation.com for a run if you want to try peer-to-peer distribution of live video through silverlight.
P.S. I'll tell Karl that you're giving his Charles tool props next time I see him ;)
enjoy!
Nigel Parker
Web UX Evangelist
Microsoft New Zealand
It is of course correct that Silverlight does and will support actual streaming. I agree that a progressive download should be called by its name. I find it annoying that Microsoft has to overhype things all the time. If it's streaming call it streaming, if it's download call it download. Easy. Oh and 'Windows Live streaming' is also misleading as users will assume it's live when in fact it's on demand delivery. I know this stems from the whole Live brand stuff but again it's confusing as hell. What would they call a live broadcast then? Windows Live Live?
Silverlight Streaming provides more than geo-distributed video/media hosting. It also provides geo-distributed Silverlight application hosting - you can upload JavaScript and Silverlight 1.1 compiled .NET application code to Silverlight Streaming too.
This blog post shows how to build a hello world Silverlight 1.1 app served by Silverlight Streaming. No video necessary.
stoem, for what it's worth the technology isn't actually called "Windows Live Streaming", it's Silverlight Streaming, as http://silverlight.live.com demonstrates.
Hi Nigel,
According to the docs (see below) Silverlight does not support the streaming protocols you say its supports... Instead it falls back to http or https..
unless I'm reading the MS docs wrong??
Please see:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb412386.aspx
-Brian
Supported Protocols
The following web protocols are supported.
* http
* https
* mms (You can use an mms URL but it will fall back to http.)
* rtsp (You can use an rtsp URL but it will fall back to http.)
* rstpt (You can use an rtspt URL but it will fall back to http.)
Hi John,
Thanks for the feedback during my session at the Silverlight Conference.
We were out gunned by Silverlight Developers in number, but I think the Flex camp came up clear and detailed answers!
Here is what I posted from the notes I received.
http://barcamp.org/SilverlightDevCampSFComparsion
If you have any updates or additions to recommend, please let me know if you can.
Great meeting you!
Randy
Brian,
My point stands and from the same page in the docs you mention...
"In addition to progressive downloads, MediaElement supports live and on-demand streaming from a Windows Media Server. If the file URI specifies the mms protocol, the MediaElement attempts to stream the file first."
Run Charles on http://gobeyond.net.nz/glennria.html and you will notice that the video is streaming from a Windows Media Server through and application hosted on Silverlight Streaming.
kiwiflickr,
I get:
unable to load media:
mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/nz/webpiste/glennRIA.wmv
Phillip, try disabling Charles and then try http://gobeyond.net.nz/glennria.html. Charles doesn't work w/ mms streams, I'll talk to Karl about addressing that.
Wow Ted - I'd say you hit a nerve with MS... :D